Ralph: Welcome back, everyone. And welcome back to the show, ladies. I thought your father was going to be joining us, but let's go ahead and get started. It'll give us a chance to get to know the two of you a little bit better. So our audience may remember that you are the two daughters of Baptista Minola. Katherina, you're the eldest daughter. And Bianca, the younger one. Our audience may also remember that you, Bianca, have a couple of suitors who have come to ask your father for permission to court you for marriage. But your father has made it very clear that suitors won't be getting anywhere near you until Katharina is married first. And well, with no suitors really in sight for Katherina, just to be clear. So for you, Bianca, I mean, whatever your opinion of these particular suitors is, let's see, Signor Hortensio and Signor Gremio. You must at least feel flattered that these men want to court you. But I also would imagine that our audience would like to hear a little more about how you're feeling, Katherina. In our previous interview, you seemed a little upset about your dad's plan, you know, to keep Bianca in the house until you get married off. 

Bianca: Oh, she's upset. 

Ralph: Oh, dear. Your sister did that to you? 

Bianca: Turning me into a slave wrongs you and me both. And I won't play along. But if you want my clothes, just untie my hands and I'll pull them off myself. 

Ralph: You want Bianca's clothes? 

Bianca: You can have everything. Or if there are things you want me to do, just say so. I know it is my duty to respect my elders. 

Kate: Fine then. Tell me who it is? 

Bianca: What? 

Kate: Of all your suitors, who do you love the best? 

Ralph: Of all of your suitors, there's just the two, right? 

Kate: And don't lie to me. I can take it. 

Bianca: Look, I can honestly say of all the men I've seen in my entire life, I have never yet seen that special face that I could love more than any other. 

Ralph: Aw. So these two suitors don't really interest you? You're still hoping for true love. 

Kate: You lying brat. It's Hortensio, isn't it? 

Bianca: Hey, if you like Hortensio, I swear, I'll put in a good word for you so that you can have him. 

Ralph: Well, now, that's interesting. Do you like Hortensio, Katherina? Is that part of the tension here? 

Kate: So then it's Gremio you like, the one with all the money. At least he can keep you in all these fancy clothes you like so much. 

Bianca: So is he the reason you hate me? 

Ralph: I think that's a great question, Bianca. Are you jealous of your sister, Katherina? Is that the reason you're so upset? 

Bianca: Because you can have Gremio. I don't even want him. [LAUGHING] So you're just joking with me? This is all a big joke to you. 

Ralph: Yes. Actually, if I could just follow up on that, what are you feeling exactly? Are you a little jealous of your sister or do you just like giving your sister a hard time? That's certainly how my brother treated me. 

Bianca: Please, sister Kate. The joke is over now. Just untie my hands. 

Ralph: Oh, dear. 

Kate: Did that feel like a joke? Then, I guess the rest was also. 

Ralph: So Kate, if I may, if I could just-- 

Baptista: So sorry I'm running late. Oh no. How can this get worse every day? Poor girl. You've made her cry. You should go do your sewing and just keep out of the way of your sister. And you should be ashamed of yourself. I don't understand how you can be so vicious with your own sister. What devilish spirit has possessed you? How can you wrong somebody that has never done any wrong to you? When did she ever say the slightest thing against you? 

Ralph: Signor Minola, if I could jump in here. I think those are great questions, Kate. And we're all sympathetic listeners here. So what is it about your sister, or your relationship with your sister, that has you so upset? Please, I want you to think of this as a safe space. 

Baptista: Thank you, Ralph. 

Ralph: Not at all. Sometimes there's not much difference between being an interviewer and a therapist. It's all about asking the right questions. Whenever you're ready, Katherina. 

Kate: Her silence flouts me. 

Ralph: OK. Good. Wonderful. That's progress already. Her silence flouts you. And if I may, for our audience, by flout, I assume that you feel mocked or insulted by your sister, but not by anything she says or does. It's in fact her silence. It's what she's not saying that you think shows some kind of disdain for you. Does that sound right so far? OK. Wonderful. Now, we're all communicating. And so that's something we can ask your sister about. So we'll get to you eventually, young lady, to find out more about what you're thinking and feeling. But let's see if we can build on this great start, Katherina. Now, from where I'm from, the next step in working through a conflict like this is to share with us how that makes you feel. Try to use I statements. 

Kate: I will be revenged. 

Ralph: Oh, Whoops. I think you're getting a little ahead of the process here. Vengeance is a kind of feeling. That's true. But I will be revenged, that's more about something you're going to do. I think we should keep the focus on what you feel inside that then leads you to think about vengeance. Tell us what it feels like to be flouted by your sister's silence. How's that feel? And again, let's stick with the I statements. 

Kate: Aye. 

Bianca: Seriously? Right in front of me, in front of all these people? So much for therapy. Get inside, Bianca, right away. 

Kate: So you have nothing to say to me? Of course not. She's your little treasure. And your little treasure needs a husband. And I have to dance barefoot on her wedding day. 

Ralph: I'm sorry. Dance barefoot? 

Baptista: We have this custom that if the younger sister gets married before the older one, then the older one is supposed to dance barefoot at the wedding. 

Ralph: You mean as some kind of punishment or something? 

Kate: Because you love her so much, I'll lead apes in hell when I die. 

Ralph: I'm sorry. 

 

Baptista: It's just a saying. If a woman dies an old maid-- 

Ralph: Having never been married, you mean? 

Baptista: Yes. Well, as the saying goes, rather than being with her children in heaven someday, she'll be leading apes in hell instead. 

Ralph: Boy, you guys really put the pressure on women to get married and have children. 

Baptista: That's a woman's life, Ralph. 

Ralph: Well, it doesn't have to be that way. I mean, where I'm from, for example-- 

Baptista: Pardon me. 

Kate: Don't talk to me. I will go sit and weep til I can find occasion of revenge. 

Ralph: Poor girl. I wonder what she means by revenge. 

Baptista: Ralph, ever had anybody on your show as vexed with grief as I am? 

Ralph: Well, let's see. Ever heard of Macbeth? 

 

Baptista:Macbeth? Can't say I have. Italian? 

Ralph: Scottish. He had a pretty hard time of it. Oh, I know. A young Italian couple, Romeo and Juliet. 

Baptista: Oh, I don't think so. I mean, there are certainly plenty of Romeos and Juliets running around. But Italian you say? 

Ralph: That's right. From Verona. 

 

Baptista: There's lots of crazy stuff happening in Verona. But no. And I don't think I know about them. 

Ralph: Yeah. It's a pretty sad story. Oh, hey, I know. Caesar. You've heard of Caesar. 

Baptista: Caesar? As in Julius Caesar? 

 

Ralph: That's right. 

Baptista: As in the Roman emperor? 

Ralph: Well, yes, but it didn't turn out so well for him. 

Baptista: You have been doing this show a long time. But right, I'm not going to compare my grief to Caesar's. 

Ralph: Well, let's not diminish at all the pain that you're going through. I mean, this situation's got to be very difficult for you. The stress of marrying your daughters off and then there's so much conflict between the two of them. But you know, since we're talking about it, if there's one thing that I've learned on this show is that you can't judge a story until you know the end. 

Baptista: What do you mean? 

Ralph: Well, things feel very troubled for you right now, but a lot of that is just worry about how things are going to turn out. What if someday, not too far away, both of your daughters are happily married and the best of friends? 

Baptista: And next week, how to nail jelly to the ceiling. Not very likely, is it? 

Ralph: Well, you never know. I'm just telling you what I've learned. No matter how hard things get, it's only what happens later that decides whether the whole thing has turned out to be a comedy or, well, a tragedy. 

Baptista: I get your point. And thanks for the pep talk, Ralph. 

Ralph: Sure. And in fact, speaking about what happens next, it's just at this point that some people arrive at your house. 

Baptista: I wonder who that could be. 

Ralph: You know what, let's get to that after a break. 

Baptista: You're going to make me wait to find out about my future? 

Ralph: It will just take a minute.