RALPH: Hello and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Ralph Hollinshead. The interviews you're about to see are with characters brought to life from Shakespeare's great history play, Julius Caesar. Although the dating of Shakespeare's plays can sometimes be tricky, Julius Caesar was almost certainly first performed in 1599. And it was probably the first play to be performed at the brand new Globe Theater in London, a theater built to accommodate the growing popularity of Shakespeare's plays. As the title suggests, the play is based on the dramatic circumstances surrounding the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 BCE, when Rome was at the center of a vast empire. Although the play is based on historical events, Shakespeare is not out to teach us history. In fact, many of the members of his audience would have already been familiar with the characters and events of the play from studying Roman history in school. Instead of the facts of history, what Shakespeare's Julius Caesar offers audiences, both then and now, is a rich exploration of what one version of that history can tell us about a whole range of human experiences, of politics and power, of friendship and marriage, of envy and conflict, of betrayal and self-deception, of great leaders and fickle masses, and much, much more. But before we get to the play itself, it just so happens that I know quite a bit about ancient Roman history, so I've prepared a small slideshow to introduce you to the main themes and historical milestones of that history, from its earliest beginnings through to the Regal period and up to the foundation of the repu-- excuse me. Sorry. Yes? What? But I'm in the mid—I'm in—who? [EXHALES] OK. Well, it looks like our slideshow will have to wait. Our first guests are already in the studio. Servilia, let's go to you. 

SERVILIA: Thanks, Ralph. And hello, everybody. I'm Servilia Plutarch. Sorry to interrupt you, Ralph. I'm sure your slideshow would have been very interesting, but we have our first distinguished guests here in the studio, and we don't want to keep them waiting. Now, you, sir—if I understand correctly—you are, well, a commoner, if you don't mind me saying. 

COBBLER: Oh, not at all. I'm as common as they come and proud of it. 

MARULLUS: Plebeian would be the Roman term for the likes of him, you know, working class. 

SERVILIA: I see. And what are you so excited about, sir? I see you have an "I heart Caesar" button there. 

COBBLER: Do you really not know? Caesar is returning to Rome after defeating Pompey's sons in battle. Caesar's victorious, and now there's a party in the streets! [BLOWING PARTY HORN] 

MARULLUS: Stop it. You're [LAUGHS BRIEFLY] acting as if he conquered foreign lands. This celebration is completely inappropriate. You should be at work. 

SERVILIA: Yes. Let's talk about that. What kind of work do you do, exactly? 

COBBLER: Me? Well, I practice a profession that you can do with a clean conscience. You might say I'm a mender of weary souls. 

SERVILIA: Oh, wow. So are you some type of priest or therapist, or something? 

MARULLUS: I think he means he's a cobbler. He fixes shoes. 

COBBLER: Yeah, I'd like to fix you. [CLEARS THROAT] 

MARULLUS: What's that? The impertinence. 

COBBLER: Hey, I said I'd like to fix your shoes. Chillax, bro. 

SERVILIA: Oh. [LAUGHS BRIEFLY] I get it. Mender of weary soles. Souls, soles. [LAUGHS] You're funny. 

MARULLUS: But you wouldn't know he's a cobbler because he's dressed like this. Completely inappropriate. 

SERVILIA: Oh, that's right. As your fellow tribune Flavius says to the cobbler here and his friend, a carpenter, right? 

MARULLUS: That's right. 

SERVILIA: "You ought not to walk upon a laboring day without the sign of your profession." What does that mean, "sign of your profession"? 

MARULLUS: Well he's a cobbler, right? He should look like a cobbler. By law, he should even have his tools with him. And it's a workday. He should be at work. 

COBBLER: He's right. I am a disgrace. I'm really nothing without the all—Do—do you get it? Like, all, awl. You know? The cobbler's tool? It's like a pointy screwdriver you— 

SERVILIA: Oh. [LAUGHS] I get it. You're nothing without the awl. [LAUGHS] Very clever. 

MARULLUS: Please don't encourage him. 

COBBLER: And I always stick to my work. I never touch another tradesman's tool. 

SERVILIA: Excuse me? 

COBBLER: I don't meddle in the affairs of women, neither. If you know what I mean. 

SERVILIA: I don't think I do. 

MARULLUS: You don't want to. 

SERVILIA: And as for you, sir, you and your buddy Flavius are tribunes, right? 

MARULLUS: Yes, that's correct. I am a tribunus plebis. 

SERVILIA: Tell our audience what that means. 

COBBLER: Well, actually You know, the word tribune literally means head of the tribe. What? I know Latin. 

MARULLUS: Okay. Allow me to explain, Servilia And pay attention, this is important for what's going on here. Tribunus plebis, tribune of the people, head of the tribe, if you prefer. We are part of the Roman state, the Roman government, and we represent the people's interests. We are chosen from the people in order to represent the best interests of the people. 

COBBLER: Oh, is that right? 

MARULLUS: Yes, that's right. Believe it or not, we are actually looking out for the best interests of the likes of you. 

COBBLER: Oh, the likes of me? 

SERVILIA: You said you are from the people. Where else would you be from? Aren't all Romans people? 

MARULLUS: Oh, ma'am, no. There's people—well, quite a lot of them, in fact. And then there's—well, then there's someone like Caesar. 

COBBLER: Now you see the problem. 

SERVILIA: And what's Caesar like? 

COBBLER: Well, it's not enough to say that he's just a person. He is part-god, after all. 

MARULLUS: Don't be ridiculous. 

COBBLER: What? Venus, the goddess is in his family tree back there somewhere. The point is, is that he's more than just a person. He's our protector, our benefactor. Romans, the people, know that good things flow from the top. 

MARULLUS: From the State, from the Republic. 

COBBLER: From the leaders. Or from the leader. [CHANTING] Caesar, Caesar, Caesar. 

MARULLUS: Enough already. Look, Servilia, I don't know where you're from, but Rome is a republic. Rome, the greatest civilization the world has ever known, is a republic. And what does that mean? That means that power is shared, okay? That means that no one person has all of the power. Power is shared amongst various groups, factions, representatives. 

SERVILIA: I get it. Actually, we have a similar idea where I'm from. You folks we're a model for it, really. Sharing power, checks and balances, it makes sure that no entity has too much power. 

MARULLUS: Precisely. I like that, checks and balances. You know, this Caesar fever, if you will, is threatening to throw the Roman state out of balance. 

SERVILIA: Out of balance with what? What's the Roman state like? 

MARULLUS: Oh, dear. That's rather complicated, I'm afraid. You see, we have senators and consuls, and magistrates. All part of the upper classes, of course. They tend to look out for their own interests. That's why it was so important that we created representatives of the people. Tribunes of the people like me. It's a brilliant innovation that has helped keep Rome so strong for so many years. 

SERVILIA: Ah. I get it. Upper classes. 

MARULLUS: Yes. Landowners, ancient families of Rome, they control most of the power. Which is as it should be. Not everybody should be in power. We're not all made of the same stuff, you know? 

SERVILIA: But even those that are supposed to have power sometimes abuse that power. 

MARULLUS: That's right. That's why we must always be on guard and that's what tribunes are for, like Flavius and me. 

SERVILIA: I guess we're a little more efficient where I'm from. It's a very complicated system. Everyone says that they represent the people, but it's mostly the upper classes looking out for themselves. 

MARULLUS: Then you see the problem. Sometimes the people do really need to be protected from consolidated power. 

SERVILIA: Hmm. 

MARULLUS: But it's not always easy. The people can be very easily tempted into thinking that someone can solve all their problems for them. They don't always like the politics. It's a messy struggle where—

COBBLER: You've gotta lighten up, buddy. I mean, if Caesar gives us everything that we want, what else do we need? 

MARULLUS: And if you give Caesar all the power and then he starts to take advantage of you, what then? 

COBBLER: Caesar wouldn't do that, he's Caesar! [CHANTING] Caesar, Caesar. 

MARULLUS: And what has Caesar actually done? You're here in the streets celebrating as if he conquered foreign powers, as if he's won a great war. 

SERVILIA: Yes. What has he done? 

MARULLUS: He defeated Pompey's sons. 

COBBLER: Enemies of Rome. 

MARULLUS: But Romans. Pompey was a consul like Caesar. They were in a struggle for power with each other. 

COBBLER: Well, and now Caesar has defeated him. Hail Caesar! 

MARULLUS: And what of Pompey? Can I assume that you were celebrating in the streets when Pompey returned home when triumph from foreign lands? We're not celebrating then, just as you are now. 

COBBLER: Maybe. 

MARULLUS: Did you not run in the streets shouting Pompey's praises? Chanting, Pompey, Pompey, Pompey. 

COBBLER: It sounds familiar. Yeah, that was a good chant. I liked that one. 

MARULLUS: [SIGHS] Bet you have "I heart Pompey" buttons at home, don't you? 

SERVILIA: Do you? 

COBBLER: A whole jarful of them, actually. You know? I guess I can clean those out now, huh? [LAUGHS BRIEFLY] 

MARULLUS: Look, Caesar has settled an inner struggle. Whether or not that is for the good of Rome is yet to be determined. What is certainly not for the good of Rome is giving Caesar more power than he should have. So get this through your thick skull, sometimes the people need to be protected from themselves, and that is the job of the tribunes. And as such, we demand that you stop this celebration and return to work. Give me the button. Now. 

COBBLER: You're such a party pooper. 

SERVILIA: Now, it's at this point that your buddy Flavius, the other tribune, tells the whole crowd to disperse, and he suggests you too go your separate ways and remove all the Caesar decorations from the statues. 

MARULLUS: Hmm. That's complicated because it is the Feast of Lupercal. 

SERVILIA: Feast of Lupercal? 

MARULLUS: Uh—yes. It's an important holiday. It's where we celebrate the founding of Rome. A good and important holiday, but it makes things a little confusing in the streets. It's a little difficult to tell what are Caesar's celebrations and what are feast day celebrations. 

SERVILIA: Yes. Well, Flavius says that you too should at least remove anything that looks like it's been put up for Caesar. 

MARULLUS: Good idea. 

SERVILIA: And then he says something I'm hoping that you can clarify. 

MARULLUS: Yes? 

SERVILIA: "These growing feathers plucked from Caesar's wing will make him fly an ordinary pitch. Who else would soar above the view of men and keep us all in servile fearfulness?" 

MARULLUS: Well said, Flavius. You don't get it? [CLEARS THROAT] Okay. Let's see. These unwarranted celebrations, these decorations, are like feathers in Caesar's wings that will allow him to soar ever higher. But if we pluck those feathers—

SERVILIA: By shutting down the celebrations and removing decorations from the statues. 

MARULLUS: Precisely. Caesar will be forced to fly at a more ordinary pitch, a normal height. 

COBBLER: You know, pitch—actually, your viewers may be interested in this—refers to the highest point at which a falcon flies. What? So I know a little about falconry. [EXHALES] 

MARULLUS: He's right. That's actually what pitch means. And like a bird of prey, Caesar will soar to new heights to rule us, like a tyrant. We must prevent it. Now, could he get back to work? 

SERVILIA: Sure. Thank you both for joining me. 

MARULLUS: This place you say you're from, is it a rich place? 

SERVILIA: Very. 

MARULLUS: And we've not conquered it yet? 

SERVILIA: Uh—no. That would be a little difficult to do. 

[ALL LAUGH] 

MARULLUS: I want you not to underestimate us. Could you show it to us on a map, perhaps? 

SERVILIA: I suppose. 

MARULLUS: Oh, my—that's pretty. What's that? 

SERVILIA: Oh, right. This is a phone. Uh—